to hear reid describe it would be $2.7 trillion in cuts, deficit savings over ten years without any tax increases, without any entitlement reform, but the president will also make the point, wolf, that not dealing with tax reform or entitlement reform also don't deal with the tough questions that you need to answer in order to get deficit reduction. also, something that these officials told me, wolf, when it comes to the boehner plan which as i mentioned would have a short-term raise of the debt ceiling, at least short term compared to what the president wants which is beyond the 2012 election, white house officials, the white house is confident that as the week goes on and they are bracing themselves for really economic turmoil this week, as the week goes on, they are confident that that argument that republicans are making, they say, will become a very unattractive argument to make, that we should be in this same position here in several months going through the exact same very chaotic debate, wolf. >> thanks very much. don't go too far away. david frum is still with us.